Opera? and a book lover? A woman after my own heart!

The aria that hooked me onto Opera when I was 16 was the love duet in Madam Butterfly

some classical music thats a bit newer, but stirring none the less...

LOTR - The Lighting of the Beacons, Howard Shore



Transformers - Arrival to Earth

Heh... I'm sure most would take issue classifying these as classical pieces, but, yeah, they're good.

My pleasure! Thanks for posting.


Oh hell yes. I'm probably an even bigger music snob than I am book snob.
However, and I'll be honest here, I know more about lit than music.

Since I haven't really sung for years, I don't as often have a reason to mention that I actually double majored in college--English and music.


Well, I did see Howard Shore conduct the Cleveland Orchestra. However, I think later I might post some more modern stuff. Sadly, stuff like the Gorecki Symphony 3 doesn't really fit in YouTube-length clips, and I'm hesitant to post the "highlights" I've seen, because it is just not the same. And if you want to go the truly classical/movie route, I'd love to post some Nyman, but again, he seems terrible underrepresented on YouTube.

its classical music in the sense that its written by a composer and performed by an orchestra... it may not have the pedigree of a Bach or a Rossini piece, so how else would you categorize it?

There is a lot of argument about film scores... however, pretty much every classical composer did commissions, soooooo... that's my argument.

Probably the same way you would classify incidental music for the theater back in the day. A lot of that has survived as fine examples of music, while even more of it has been rightfully forgotten as trash. 100 years for now, people will probably think the same of film music.

i think that selling a lot of the modern day composers short... the only difference between a John Williams and a composer from the 1700's is the age they live in... its too bad that people have to turn a snooty nose up at what modern composers have to offer and relegate it to the trash bins of history before actually listening to it, practicing it and performing it... a lot of the moodern day classical compositions are vibrant and fresh compared to the "classical" composers...

No, that's bunk. Classical is classical because it's, well, classical. Film scores of today are contemporary orchestra, and aren't even in the same genre. Such logic assumes that country and rock are the same because both use guitars and drums.

Now, while acknowledging having fun with a thread that's titled "Music that doesn't suck," I understand that HoC's intent was for classical music of the type, which includes romantic and baroque. There are composers of today who compose in that style for artistic expression (including John Williams, although he's never done so for a film score to my knowledge), but most film scores are most certainly not of a classical genre.

Actually, there's no difference between JW and truly classical composers because he blatantly rips them all off.


Thank you, dear.

Philip Glass is a frakkin Genuis & has done plenty of Flim scores.


Classical Music is defined both by time period &/or style of music specifically as Chamber Music, Opera & Symphony

Quoting myself:


PG is certainly one of the former rather than latter I was thinking of when I wrote this.

Heh.... I don't care so much how you guys define Classical music (I personally see it as style of music as defined in webster) so long as we can agree that PG is greatness himself.

Very much agreed.

And since this is a BSG board:

Metamorphosis 1

Oh you are a Dear, I'm not sure on how to post links or I would return the favor. Let me work on that, maybe I'll bug one of my kids to show me how.

Well, the easy way is just to copy the url and paste it straight into the post. You don't have to be swanky about it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMN5jE-hPAQ...laynext_from=PL

I didn't realize it was so easy. OK let me go find a goody for you guys. This one was my practice one.

Now that I'm home from work, I could actually see this. I'll admit it--I love Puccini.


Also, for those interested, a fun internet forum discussion about John Williams and his "inspiration."

PG is still good.

I figured since I mentioned earlier that I sang in college, I would post some of the songs I did. (Obviously, not my recordings of them.)

Two Samuel Barber songs

("Sure on This Shining Night" and "The Crucifixion")

Ok Mishima quratet NO# 3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kjBZJ1-bok

Oh! I'll listen to that as soon as I'm done listening to this:

Dido's Lament

(Hands down my favorite piece I ever sang.)

Very beautiful, I'm impressed that you can sing that.

Well, once upon a time, I sang it quite well, if I do say so myself. However, I'm really out of practice now.

Fratres for violin & piano
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FukUz9z9HkY...feature=related

Damn you have good taste! Reminds me that it's been too long since I've listen to Te Deum. (Must find something on YouTube after I'm done with this.)

Te Deum

Thank You, coming from you that is high praise. Now I'm off to listen to Te Deum

Peer Gynt Aase's Death
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrhMv_4Q-YU...feature=related

Very nice!

Well, let's see... since that's where his training is... duh.

And have you ever heard his actual classical compositions? They're quite competent. Very good stuff.

"Classical" is colloquially defined only by period. Classical, romance, and baroque as genre are specifically defined by style, and while they enjoyed their eras of proliferation, are not confined to definition by period. Film scores are not usually classical. Symphony does not, in and of itself, connote classical. Unless you're suggesting Metallica's S&M was such. Opera is also broken down into specific genre, some of which constitutes classical, much of which does not.

It's the same as rock. Rock 'n roll, "classic rock," alternative rock, folk rock, etc. All in the family of rock, but each distinctly different. Even rap's being distinguished from hip-hop now.

quite the opposite wolfe... logic does not assume that they are the same, as there are major differences in the stylization and composition structure of country and rock... If you look at the structure of a modern score composition and a classical piece, those differences are not so evident, not as clear cut...

I suppose if it strokes a persons ego to say they do dont like modern composition and only listen to the composers of yesteryear, its no skin off my teeth... in the long run they are the ones who are missing out...

Hardly. Again, see my rock example.


So now you're implying I don't like modern composition? Barking up the wrong tree. I've actually scored a short film or two in my lifetime, thanks.

Competent. That's what I always look for in music.


Have you noticed all of the modern composers we've posted?

I imply nothing. I know nothing of your likes or dislikes Wolfe in regards to music. Simply stated, all that meant is I dont care what music you think is good or bad. It makes no difference to anybody but you.


As for your rock example, its meaningless. In the future if you are going to hold something up as an example, please make sure it makes sense.


with that said, here's some old music for everybody to enjoy.

Well, we all know that's a lie. If you didn't care, you wouldn't have refuted anything with your uneducated nonsense.


I'll get right around to that as soon as you realize fingers and toes are different parts of your body. Of course, you'll claim that makes no sense, which will pretty much prove how much of a moron you are.

But, hey, all primates have been shown to enjoy classical music, so I suppose you're welcome to the party.

Now now boys...we must needs to play nice

When homeboy jumped in with the "me idiot" attitude, nice went out the window. When people make poor comparisons, then inaccurate ones, then sarcastic ones, finishing off with asinine ones, each of which proving limited mental capacity... then, well, they need to wear the shoes they fitted for themselves.

please, spare me the attitude mr big bad wolfe... you take inferences from my posts and believe what you want, and then say im's an idiot? thats rich... Unlike most people I say what i mean... you dont need to infer if i implied anything... for example... You are an egotistical asshole... If it makes you feel better, you can infer meaning from that, but its really not necessary... its pretty evident, dontcha think?

You claim knowledge, which based on your responses, which is well beyond your capabilities... Oh wait, I forgot, you composed for a small independant movie... im sorry, god, you must be an expert! <infer sarcasm here>... however, your posts indicate otherwise, passing off an idiots view of composition with flippant remarks about instruments... You say nothing worthwhile and certainly have offered no worthwhile examples... now, go run along like a good little puppy and make 15 more useless threads... or better yet, go google "composition"... it might help...

Aw... did the widdle boy lose his favowit toy in da sandbox?

If you said what you meant, you'd have identified whom you were speaking about in your little crybaby post. And I know I'm an asshole... works for me. How does being a complete and utter moron work for you?

You also have comprehension problems, idiot, as had you read my statement properly, you'd have realized I was stating that I love modern compositions by mentioning I've scored short films. I even acknowledged liking those two film score samples you posted, but you apparently have a hard time reading sentences more than a couple of words long.

Compared to you, I am an expert on this subject matter. Have a background in music, composition, arrangement, and theory. Whoops. Sure, not as in-depth as some, but certainly enough to know that classical as a genre does not include Howard Shore's LOTR score. Which you, clearly, are unable to grasp with your limited mental capacity. But go ahead and tell us how John Williams' Darth Vader theme is kin to Beethoven's 9th.

"Oh, look. Violins, trumpets, and kettle drums! Must be classical."

Orchestral soundtrack music has much in common with "classical" music.

Just as the ancients didn't think of themselves as ancient, neither did the classical composers think of themselves as such.
in their own time period, they composed music which serve to accompany stage performance such as opera.

A modern opera has much in common with "classical" opera, just as a movie theme might have much in common with an overture or fanfare, except for the royalty entering the theater.

Hell, Bach even took liberties by stealing from contemporary songs of his day, importing pop music into Lutheran worship.

Centuries from now, people might look back and put John Williams and Bach or Verdi in the same digital download category.

In the sense that "classical: music didn't use modern tuning, the similarity between a soundtrack orchestral piece, and a "classical" piece performed in Concert A tuning on modern instruments might have more in common with each other than would a magically imported "classical" piece as we believe them to have been originally performed.

I understand what Shan Yu means, and don't find value in quibbling over the semantic meaning of "classical" in this sense.
taken as a period, it does not include modern works, but as a style, I can understand conflating such works with classical works as they are more properly defined.

I'm going to come in now in support of TBug's request.

Gentleman this thread isn't in the No Holds Bared section.

HoC created this thread as a place for her to enjoy talking about one of her favourite subjects, not to come into to discover a war.

I respectfully request that if you genuinely feel the need to lob insults at each other take it to the NHB section or pm's.

If you think you can continue this without the insults then by all means proceed.

Thank you.

DM, I appreciate the attempt to defuse the banter, but there's no point.

I already defined the differences between classical as a period and classical as a genre, and made the point that film scores usually fall within neither. That they are both largely orchestral based has nothing to do with their classification, and it's akin to a discussion you and I had earlier concerning Americana. See my earlier post explaining all of this in detail.

SY was incorrect, and took to insults rather than discussion when it was pointed out. I can't help if the logic gene was left out of his ancestral makeup.

It isn't an effort to diffuse anything.

That is the mod's job, and they are right that this isn't appropriate for personally insulting forms of argument.

I understand disagreeing vehemently, especially when someone insists on asserting something I know to be inaccurate.
Been there, done that.

Plenty of film scores have much in common with classical compositions.
Even if it is just that it is orchestral music using the same tuning, it is a similarity. But that would depend on the score.

In terms of a scholarly use of nomenclature, it is indeed different.

MFATGG

Hmmm... Been meaning to drop by this thread, mebbe even contribute a couple of my own favorites. I'm on the way out the door, but I'll have to get back here and watch/listen to all the posts soon. Interesting to see where folks' tastes lie. =^[.]^=

I was giving this a lot of thought as I fell asleep last night, and I've come up with an analogy. Let's see if it helps.

A novel is constructed of words, written in sentences. (Let's just pretend more experimental novels don't exist for the time being.) A screenplay is also made up of words, mostly in sentences, but written in a way to convey specific meanings and directions to people making a film. Just because a screenplay uses sentences, that does not mean it's a novel.

Just because a film score uses an orchestra, solo instrument, chorus, etc., does not make it classical music.

A film score is a specific kind of music used for a specific purpose that loses some of its meaning when not attached to the film. Now, as I said earlier, many classical composers wrote incidental music for the theater which is now viewed like any other piece of classical music. (Thanks Mendelssohn for that rousing wedding march in Midsummer Nights Dream. /sarcasm) Some day, some film music will likely, for better or worse, be considered along side straight classical compositions of the 20th/21st Centuries.

Also, it should be noted that when I saw Howard Shore conducting the Cleveland Orchestra, they didn't just play the LOTR soundtrack as it had been composed for the films. It was entirely restructured as a symphony, because film scores do not work as straight classical music.

Oh, and at this point, I forget who posted this, but opera and film scores are nothing alike. The music in opera isn't there to enhance the drama, it is the drama and the entire point.

Anyhow, listen to some music.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLt5U9DDb9c

As i said before, i dont care what you like or dont like Wolfe. Apparently you think one part of this is about what you like or dislike? Its not. You and your opinions dont mean jack. You obviously have a problem with reading comprehension, but that is pretty plain.

If you have studied music theory, you would (although in your case its safer to say you probably wouldn't) see the similarities in the elements of composition structure, which is what I was referring to in the first place. And yes, the the classical music and Shores' or Williams' scores are very similar - the major theme and movements of the music thru out the composition. Are they identical? No, but the similarities strongly suggest that they are based on the same principles. Yet somehow you think the comparison is all based on i common instruments? For the life of me, i dont know where you got that from, as I never brought it up. Guess you took your own idea and ran with it. Absurd.

The idea that a score for a movie is somehow "different" from a classical composition circa the 1700's is utter bunk. You brought it up, so take Williams Star Wars score. If you first heard the track without having seen the movie, what would you think? How would you classify the music? If you answer the question honestly, theres only one answer. It falls into the classical genre, plain and simple.

If you want to narrowly define classical music as music created in the 1700's to the late 1800's, go ahead, but its not really correct. Its the composers of that period who can be slotted like that, but not the genre of music. Like rock music, like jazz, the blues and every other form of music, classical has evolved. No matter how much it has evolved, the roots of the music that was compoosed in the 1700's versus 2000's are there. So go on, call me more names if it makes you feel better. It might help, but we both know it really wont because we both know I am right.

It was me.

And I disagree that they are "nothing alike.'

They do have certain similarities, chief being that they are music to accompany staged works of performance.

Any opera that was based upon an ancient myth or religious them have an "entire point" independent of the music,aria and recitative.
When a classical composer used a librettist, I think a case can be made that the music is not the drama.
It is, like a film score, punctuating the drama. Sometimes drama draping the music.

So, while I can agree that film scores and opera (modern of classic) are "different" they are also "similar" in many ways as well.

As staged story-songs evolved into Broadway style show tunes, it retained a commonality, it is still music geared to support stage performances. A classically trained opera singer might cringe at the suggestion that their art is in the same league as Broadway show tunes, but that stems from a professional conceit rather than a more distant evaluation.
Up close there are differences, but there are similarities as well.

I can understand why those with musical training with an emphasis on the classical works and history might be insistent that there is a huge difference, but from where I stand the difference is not that great.