Babylon 5 was my very first fandom, i.e., the first show I was more interested in than just something to watch.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylon_5

View all five seasons free online at:

http://www.surfthechannel.com/show/television/Babylon_5.html

Quality may not always be 100% on the vids, but, hey, it's free!

-Raycheetah =^[.]^=

P.S.: Oh, hope you don't mind the Chinese subtitles...

-RC =^[.]~=

Another *HUGE* B5 fan here. Didn't realize I was in such prestigious and excellent company, Ray!

Bah!
They ripped the Chinese bootlegs and put them up.

Awww... I think it throws in a vaguely Firefly feel to the proceedings...

-RC =^[.]~=

Thanks for the link Ray!

Favorite show ever.

Ah, I feel the love of the true connoisseurs of classic quality sci-fi!

It looks like Warner has okayed another, slightly higher-budget Lost Tales DVD; I'd love some more B5, if only it didn't come across as a two-act stage play, like the first Lost Tales did.

Gonna miss G'kar, Dr. Franklin, and Zathras, in any case...

-RC ='[.]'=

It was my favourite SF show, ever... I loved Babylon 5, even if the last season was a bit of a letdown.

I've only ever seen bits and pieces of the series in re-runs, but I really enjoyed it. It struck me as having the same heart that TOS Star Trek did, but updated. I never saw that "heart" in the later star Trek versions. I loved that they integrated money into the Sci-fi equation instead of just the military and its power. And everything was integrated. A good story is a good story no matter what genre it's in.

Thanks Mr. Cheetah!!!

In regards to what BitsyBoo is saying about integrating money into the show and having heart...That's one of two things that appealed to me the most about B5. First thing being (at least to me) how much more realistic B5 was than Star Trek. In B5 you had money, homeless people, drugs, religion, wars...I don't know, maybe I'm just talking out of my ass because I just woke up 5 minutes ago lol.

The other thing that I really liked was the fact that it was a serialized show, I.E. plotlines continued every week. I absolutely LOVE serialized shows, it just makes it so much interesting. When I think about the difference between serialized and non-serialized shows my mind somehow always compares B5 and Star Trek: TNG. Now, keep in mind that I loved TNG...That is until B5 came along and blew me away lol! I guess because you had that whole monster/alien of the week kind of thing going on with TNG, which can get rather stale. DS9 became a huge favorite as well due to the Dominion arc, which pretty much made it a serialized show.

Well, that could'a been because DS9 was a colossal rip-off* of Babylon 5... Later seasons of DS9, for all that, was my favorite of the Treks, for that very reason.

But, yeah, serialization makes the plotlines flow together and sustained, rather than the "Gilligan's Island" effect that comes from an episodic approach. And, as Ms. Boo mentioned, the "real world" elements make the setting more organic, gives the characters more to dig their roots into.

Love me some B5!

-Raycheetah =^[.]^=

* http://en.allexperts.com/e/s/si/similariti..._space_nine.htm

J.M. Straczynski discusses the WB position on DS 9:

http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/find/CompuServe/latest/31.html

Also, see:

http://www.midwinter.com/cgi-bin/lurkfind?...OPS=1&THE=0

I love B5! It's my favorite TV show ever. Yes, if I had to choose, I'd even pick it over BSG.

While my BSG:TOS / 1979 Buck Rogers series has become the passion of my life (for the moment, anyhow), B5 is without a doubt my favorite show of all time.

As I was pointing out recently to a friend, the (positive) shock-waves emanating from it's arrival on television can still be felt in many of the shows which have come along since. DS9, Enterprise, SG-1 and SG Atlantis, etc. Even lots of non-sci-fi night dramas have been to one extent or another influenced by it.

Maybe it's crazy to say this on a Galactica message board, but maybe we should have a B5 night here, or via IM, or whatever.

Well... I have all five seasons on dvd... I love the last season, but boy, there sure was some fabulous writing from time to time, wasn't there???
Again, the writing...
The ep where the various and assundry groups have decided to share their most holy ritual... and the Captain (Sinclair???) on his first couple of weeks on the stations introduces all the religions of earth... Native American Shamans, Buddhist monks, Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, Wiccan... and the line is long.

It made me proud of tv...
especially cuz I was watchin that instead of Survivor...
But that's just me.

I wouldn't have the savvy to put 'em online.
But I could see a group nite...nites...

Well, it would appear Peter Jurasik will be attending this year's Vulkon in Orlando. I mean, c'mon, to have Londo within arm's reach and just ignore it? Are you outta your mind?!?!?

I dunno if I'll be able to go to this, but I'm sure gonna give it a helluva try.

I was fortunate enough over ten years ago to see pretty much all the biggies from B5 at Dragon*Con in Atlanta, over the course of several conventions. Everybody, including Ed Wasser, who played Morden, was really very nice... Except Robin Atkin Down(er), who played that prissy Teep, Byron. Face to face, the guy's a pill, and a bitter pill, at that.

The late Andreas Katsulas (G'kar) and Peter Jurasik (Londo) still got a lot of nice interplay in the panels, albeit out of character. Jerry Doyle (Garibaldi) was also fun to hear talk. I also give a LOT of props to Jason Carter (Ranger Marcus Cole), whom my wife absolutely adores! She was SO gorram shy about meeting him, but he was so very sweet to her, several cons in a row, that I know he's the real deal. He'd make a helluva Browncoat, come to think of it.

Jason and the late Richard Biggs (Dr. Franklin) were great friends, getting into quite a bit of mischief, allegedly. You could tell it really took a lot out of Jason for a while, after Richard passed away.

Claudia Christian (Ivanova) was very nice, and had no problem signing nekkid piccies of herself from Playboy, or B5 paraphenalia; we also picked up her music CD, as well as some books on CD she did.

Stephen Furst (Vir) was there in later years, and, though he was a "junior" member of the cast, he was as much fun to hear on the panels as anybody.

Michael O'Hare (Sinclair) was there, one year; I think he was incredibly bemused by the fandom. Mira Furlan (Delenn) was also in attendance, once or twice, if I recall correctly, a very nice, laid-back lady.

And, finally, Billy Mumy (Lennier) was a HOOT! Aside from all the Lost in Space references ("Danger, Will Robinson!), he was also part of Barnes and Barnes, creators of "Fish Heads:"



He was also a good sport, and, pulled out his guitar with only gentle wheedling, performing that classic, and others, for the audience.

Later, Firefly cast members became the big draw, and, were, on the whole, every bit as warm and accommodating as the B5 folks. We haven't been back to Dragon*Con in a couple of years, but, I imagine there are other, current celebrity draws, now, the kind who fill up the massive ballrooms, with lines stretching around the block (literally!) to get in.

Yeah... I miss the con...

-Raycheetah ='[.]'=

Wow...
Well, I certainly hope y'all make it to the Florida thing... but Vegas is a bit farther than arms reach..
Do report!!!
Thanks for the peek at the early days of B5!!
I searched ImDb... for Jason Carter. I found a slew of 'em... and while I remember the rangers... I wanted to look for other stuff. Is there a clarifying signal??
I pulled up B5, and found no Jason Carter.

Well, that's just a ruttin' crime!

See him here, with his usual grin.

Here's a characteristic sequence:



Jason inserted a lot of his own, puckish personality into the character of Marcus Cole. Lots of fun to be around!

-RC =^[.]^=

Huh. That is interesting... Jason cam up as the guyyou said was a pill... then nothing from MDB.. eculiar
m glad toknowtht his i Jason... ntsome fart with a head too big for his ego...
Thanks for clearing that up!!!
Blessings!

"Robin Atkin Down(er), who played that prissy Teep, Byron. Face to face, the guy's a pill, and a bitter pill, at that."

Jason Carter was the sweetest, most unassuming cast member of any show I have had the pleasure to meet face to face.

I'll have to find and scan the pics I got of him with the missus. He's a genuinely nice fellow.

-Raycheetah =^[.]^=

I genuinely enjoyed his character... and the relationship line... his love for and sacrifice... to keep (damn... I'm watchin' Serenity ep... and cannot for the life of me remember her name... but you get the idea...)
I'm a sucker for an accent, too... so if the dark hair, longish, wasn't enought to turn my head.. he had that delicious voice... not as Barritone as either Patrick Stewart, or ... Sisko (losin' names again... gettin old sucketh eggs.) but just a pretty man in general.

Thanks for clearing up the id... you're always on the ball... even if I'm not. So, ain't it fine to have friends to share all this shiny fun with!!
I'm tellin ya... Is there a way to "put the eps on some kind of viewer that you can share??? I mean, I did pay for 'em...and it would just be for a group view & fandom... no money exchanging hands...or permanent site thing.

For a show which had so very many great lines, the one from Jason is one of the best...

"Who knew they were French..."

My favorite show without a doubt even with a downer of a last season. I'm paradoxically a white star/Ivanova/Londo/Shadow fan (try making sense of that). The de-facto father-son relationship between Londo and Vir is my favorite in the show.

Vir was yet another example of a character who evolved over time, from a comic foil to a rising statesman. His relationship with Londo was, as you note, very well-done. I think that, as Londo realized what his fate was going to be, he saw in Vir an opportunity for some of his own dreams and aspirations, themselves matured beyond his early desires for a return to Centauri power and prestige.

Ghod, what a great show!

-Raycheetah =^[.]^=

Londo to Vir ("Midnight On The Firing Line" Season 1x01):

"The council can go to hell. And the emergency session can go to hell! And you! You can go to hell too! I wouldn't want you to feel left out, hmm?!"

ROFL! I'm watching this episode right now....God I love Londo!

Some of my favorite Londo/Vir quotes

Londo: "Vir, intelligence has nothing to do with politics"

Londo: "My shoes are too tight and I have forgotten how to dance"
Vir: "I don't understand"
Londo: "And you shouldn't"

Londo: "What are you doing?"
Vir: "Being efficient"
Londo: "A few more like you and the Centauri Republic will efficient itself to extinction"

Londo: "How fast does the poison work?"
Vir: "Very quickly, he said almost instantaneously."
Londo: "Almost'? How fast is almost? Time enough for him to stagger back into the main room and cry out: 'Londo killed me'? Or maybe just enough time for him to say: 'Londo kill..aargh'?"
Vir: "And then he won't even get that out, I mean, maybe he just go: 'Lon.. arrgh'. Or maybe he's totally delirious and then say everything backwards and say: 'Kill Londo! Arrgh'. .. I was just making a play on.."
Londo: "Well, it's time."

MORDEN: But what do you want?

VIR: What do I want? I want to live long enough to see them stick your head on a pike as a reminder that some favors come with too high a price. I would wave at your lifeless eyes like this... *waves*

------

LONDO: I feel like I'm being nibbled to death by... by... what are those Earth creatures, have two webbed feet and a beak and go "quack"?

VIR: Cats?

LONDO: Yes... I feel like I'm being nibbled to death by cats.

------

DELENN: We are the universe made manifest, trying to figure itself out.

------

DELENN: This is Ambassador Delenn of the Minbari. Babylon 5 is under our protection. Withdraw... or be destroyed.

CAPT. SMITH: Negative. We have authority here. Do not force us to engage your ship.

DELENN: Why not? Only one human captain has ever survived battle with a Minbari fleet. He is behind me. You are in front of me. If you value your lives, be somewhere else.

------

CAPT. THOMPSON: This is Captain Jake Thompson of the Advanced Destroyer Group to enemy vessels. We have you surrounded. You are ordered to surrender your vessels or be destroyed. I say again: surrender, or be destroyed.

IVANOVA: Put me on with him, and give me firing control.

*beat*

IVANOVA: This is the White Star fleet. Negative on surrender. We will not stand down.

CAPT. THOMPSON: Who is this? Identify yourself!

IVANOVA:Who am I? I am Susan Ivanova, Commander. Daughter of Andrei and Sophie Ivanov. I am the right hand of vengence, and the boot that's going to kick your sorry ass all the way back to Earth as we know it. I am death incarnate, and the last living thing that you are ever going to see. God sent me.

Ah, some of my favorite quotes! The best one is that last one. I'm totally doing a B5 marathon right now! I'm about to start 1x07 "The War Prayer", although I'm struggling a bit to get through Season 1, not my favorite.

Maybe not your favorite, but look out for the little hints of things to come the first-time viewer would completely miss. Such as when Delenn starts building the "scaffolding" for the triluminary to be used in her transformation.

I can't remember the exact line off-hand, but it was in the episode where Londo's three wives all showed up on the station. Londo is in sickbay and, after he's been bad-mouthing his wives to their faces, to the doctor, and anyone else within earshot, the doctor (Biggs) finally has had enough and yells at him. As the doctor is walking away, Londo says "That's funny. I didn't know we were married."

Pestilence, Death and Famine............... which leaves Londo as war.

I first started watching B5 when it was shown on C4 in the UK and I loved the show. The episodes that really sold the show to me were "And the sky full of stars" "Believers" "Signs and Portents" after those three episodes I was offically a B5 addict especially after seeing a shadow vessal for the first time, those are the most bad ass ships I have ever seen. Infact nearly all the ships on B5 looked good.

Some time ago I nearly brought a Shadow vessel Model Kit, Had a look to see how much they are now, I couldn't believe it £100, the model was 16.5 inches across though.

If I ever have that kind of cash lying around I think I could be tempted to get one.

RaiderDave:

IIRC, here in the 'States, they really never sold all that much in the way of model kit stuff for B5; and I think most of what was sold came from England.

I gather it was to do with them not being able to find the same level of quality in model manufacturing here in the U.S.

Oh, you obviously aren't into miniatures. There's a whole range of pewter wargaming minis that covers all the ships in the B5 universe, including the fighters and Babylon 5 itself.

To whit:

http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/home/ser...php?qsSeries=11

I've seen these; I used to sell them (among other things); they're great! For a conventional plastic modeller, the scale might be challenging, but the size allows you to use the nifty ship combat rules to play the game, too!

-Raycheetah =^[.]^=

Yep, those are the minis. I like the way that site kind of hides them, though. Anyway, the shop I go to in order to get my fix of historical minis has a whole wall devoted to the B5 stuff.

Nope, not this white boy.

I like something to scale and with a little size to it.

I saw the minitures I just didn't care for them all that much, the one I saw were the plastic or resin ones, there was about 2/3 waves of them. Kosh, Kosh's ship, Narn fighter, Starfury, Babylon 5, Delenn, Sheriden, Ivonava, Shadow Creature etc.

The thing is I wanted to build one of the big ships, unfortunently the models have all doubled in price over the years and they are also hard to get hold of.

Marginally OT, but, check this out:

http://www.fireflyshipworks.com/

They're working on a Serenity model!

-Raycheetah =^[.]^=

You know, I can't believe I forgot this one . . .

Sheridan: "And just how did you get this information, Mr. Bester?"
Bester: "I'm a telepath, Captain . . . figure it out."

Some details of how Babylon 5 was deep-sixed by F*X and their affiliates:

Quoted from Wikipedia:

"PTEN was launched as a potential fifth network, and offered packaged nights of programming to television stations, beginning with a two-hour block, with second block added one year later. However, close to half of PTEN's initial affiliates were Fox stations, and PTEN programming was usually scheduled around Fox's then five-night prime time schedule. Some PTEN-affiliated stations took issue with the network's barter split, which gave nine minutes of advertising time per hour to the syndicator, leaving only five minutes to the stations. The network also ran into difficulty when the studio was forced to let stations out of their back-end commitments for several series."


Very similarly to what happened to Firefly, Babylon 5 was turned into a scheduling hot-potato, where F*X was concerned, the pea in a shell-game of pre-emption and rescheduling which, ultimately, caused it to be lost from sight. Many of us were VERY grateful (for a while) to TNT for allowing JMS to complete his story, though, there were issues with that network about series content which made for a less-than-perfect partnership.

I still hate and distrust F*X.

-Raycheetah ='[.]'=

This looks interesting:

"Welcome to the home of novo Babylonia!

an audio adventure based on the acclaimed sci-fi show babylon 5!

Based 6 years after the death of John J Sheridan and the destruction of Babylon 5, Novo B follows on where B-5 left off.


The year is 2287, The Interstellar Alliance has split with some of the major races at war with one another, indeed even the Centari are experiencing what they call a minor civial upset.


We join David Sheridan, Son of John and Delenn as he is recalled to Minbar and seconded into the ISA by President Susan Ivanova to aid the refugees and defend the remaining ISA member worlds from attack.

With his fledgling career cut short, David is very resistive, and he knows only too well, that his history with the Drahk makes him a less than popular choice.


The ISA decide that they need to make a stand and bring the truth of light once again to the galaxy. For David this is a trying time, with the factions that have split from ISA, and those that are within, he's got a tough job to do, and then there's the Anlashok!


David however is left a message, one that mystifies him, his mother, Delenn, reveals to him that all hope my not be lost. Delenn reveals to David that since the desruction of Babylon 5, there has been a secret project running, growing, within the Anlashok, known only to the few. Delenn, as usual. is candid with her details, but reveals to David the name of the project. The name is Novo Babylonia.


Novo Babylonia is destined to be an “open source” collaboration, with many people from around the world lending their talents and their time to the project. Everything from writing, acting to music and sound production will be done by volunteers who enjoy this chance to say thank you to all those who made the Babylon 5 universe possible. Wherever possible, sources will be referenced and acknowledgements will be posted. Novo Babylonia is a non-for-resale venture.


COMING SOON! Listen to the trailer NOW!"

(Made on a Mac!)

Sounds a bit amateurish, but then, when has that ever mattered, when someone is passionate enough to attempt something like this?

-Raycheetah =^[.]^=

From another post (on Skiffy) by the fellow who posted that last bit:



You gettin' this, Mike?

-RC =^[.]^=

Hey, look! Free streaming Babylon 5, without Chinese subtitles:

http://video.aol.com/video-category/babylon-5/103266

=^[.]^=

...Crusade, too:

http://video.aol.com/video-category/crusade/103267

=0[.]0=

Interesting.

Well, it's over.

from jmsnews.com


"Putting this on a recent thread here where it's more likely to be seen
in a quick fashion....

Several things just to update folks.

First, many thanks to all those who sent along research suggestions
and offerings to be of assistance on the project I can't talk about.
I've been swamped with deadlines and unable to reply to any of the
public notes and private emails, but as soon as I can get my head
above water, be assured that I'll be in touch with many of you.

Second, as noted in the original thread before I hijacked it, yes, the
plan at the moment is that I will be at Comic Con San Diego this year,
primarily doing my thing on Thursday and Saturday afternoons.

There is a *chance* -- mind you, it's just a slim chance but to be
honorable I must mention it -- that a work situation *may* preclude my
appearance there. Or it may not. I'll know more by the end of next
week, and for now as far as I know, everything's on target for me to
be at SDCC. If that changes, I'll be sure to let everyone know as far
in advance as possible.

One final note re: recent discussions on TMoS and more Lost Tales.

B5:TLT was commissioned at a $2 million budget to, yet one more time,
"test the waters" for B5. We did what we could with that, and that
was that. As we did with Rangers, which also suffered from not having
a lot of money because of concerns about "is there really a B5
audience?" Which is, of course, a foolish question from a studio that
has never really understood what it has in B5.

Of late, there have been more discussions from WB about doing more
DVDs, again at a low cost, or a cable thing, again with minimal
investment.

So for the last few months, I've been giving this whole subject a lot
of quiet thought. And I've come to a conclusion.

B5 as a five year story stands beautifully on its own. If anything
else is to be continued from that story, it should be something that
adds to the legacy of B5, rather than subtracts from it.

As well intentioned as Rangers and TLT were, as enticing as it was to
return to those familiar waters, in the end I think they did more to
subtract from the legacy than add to it. I don't regret having made
them, because I needed to go through that to get to the point where I
am now psychologically, but from where I sit now, I wouldn't make them
again.

So I've let everyone up here know that I'm not interested in doing any
more low-budget DVDs. I'm not interested in doing any low-budget
cable things or small computer games. The only thing I would be
interested in doing regarding Babylon 5 from this point on is a full-
featured, big-budget feature film.

It's that or nothing.

And if it's nothing, I'm totally cool with that because the original
story stands on its own just fine. I'm not lobbying for it, I'm not
asking fans to write in about it (nor should you) because such
campaigns never really have much impact...that's simply the position
I've taken up here. Lord knows I don't lack for other things to do
these days. I'm busier on more prestige projects with terrific people
and great film-makers than at any other time in my career.

At the end of the day, for me, it's not just a matter of getting more
B5. It's a matter of getting more *good* B5 that respects what came
before it and doesn't have to compromise visually or in terms of
action. The original show deserves better than that, the surviving
cast members deserve better than that, and the fans who have supported
it over the years definitely deserve better than that. A lot better.

So I've drawn that line in the sand, and I'm happy living on whichever
side of that line the universe puts me. Just thought you should know,
'cause it's your show too.

jms"

Yeah... It's true. Better not to further dilute the impact of B5 with sub-par productions.

Sometimes, you can't go home again.

=-[.]-=

Thus proving that some lessons cannot be taught, then can only be experienced.

I, for one, am glad that jms finally came to this conclusion. It's more-or-less the opinion I've held for a while, and especially in light of TLT. Don't get me wrong, it was great to see Bruce and Co. again, and clearly the opticals were absolute perfection. But the stories added nothing to the B5 universe.

Having watched Season 5, I'm one of those crazies who almost wishes he would have left it at four seasons instead, and the primary reason for that is it would have given him a wealth of material to explore which actually would have added to the series.

Of course, with the deaths of Richard and Andreas, it's kind of hard to continue on the series anyhow. C 'est la vie.

...And the death of Tim Choate, who, while a lesser luminary, still made a contribution to B5.

=-[.]-=