Vampires, Vampires, Vampires!, Dark Shadows, Moonlight, Blood Ties Options

[russant]

Who knows if Mick will get with Beth. I think they will drag it out forever like they do on all tv shows. Mick's EX puts a damper on things too. Can't wait till it comes back on.

[Raycheetah]

Who knows if Mick will get with Beth. I think they will drag it out forever like they do on all tv shows. Mick's EX puts a damper on things too. Can't wait till it comes back on.

Well, you know they HAVE to maintain the sexual tension. Otherwise, the show goes *POOF!* I like how they work that between Henry and Vickie (and Mike) on Blood Ties, too. There, it's the female lead with the issues that complicate everything. Of course, in that case, the books have it rather differently...

Still haven't seen anything definite on when we'll see new Moonlight. I've seen announcements ranging from late March to (mebbe, we're still thinking about) next fall. So, we'll see more, when we see more.

-Raycheetah =^[.]^=

[russant]

TBug says it comes back in April.

[TBug]

TBug says it comes back in April.

This is where I get the information from, and strangely enough...I got this link from Ray, lol


http://moonlightfans.com/index.php?option=...8&Itemid=44

[Raycheetah]

This is where I get the information from, and strangely enough...I got this link from Ray, lol
http://moonlightfans.com/index.php?option=...8&Itemid=44

Yes, but, that just shows how much attention I pay to myself...

Blood Ties is up for an Indie Award!

The awards are tonight:

http://www.cftpa.ca/membership/indie_awards/nominations.php

Best Prime Time Drama Series

Blood Ties
Producer(s): Paul McConvey, Randy Zalken, Marshall Kesten, Kirk Shaw, Peter Mohan
Durham County
Producer(s): Janis Lundman, Adrienne Mitchel, Michael Prupas
Intelligence
Producer(s): Chris Haddock, Laura Lightbown, Arvi Liimatainen
Race To Mars
Producer(s): Arnie Gelbart, Phyllis Platt, Pia Maria Marquard
ReGenesis III
Producer(s): Christina Jennings, Scott Garvie, Laura Harbin, Tom Chehak

-Raycheetah =^[.]^=

[Raycheetah]

Here's a short essay on the television genesis of the "reluctant vampire:"

http://bekkilynn.blogspot.com/2008/02/vamp...ner-demons.html

"Saturday, February 16, 2008
Vampires Fighting Their Inner Demons

How many of you know that Barnabas Collins was the first vampire to question his curse and fight it? Jonathan Frid's performance of the character set the course for Ann Rice and those who followed in the quest to protray vampires unwilling to accept the demon within. From there on, they have become the hero's of many romances in various genres.

For me, Barnabas has always been the epitomy of the romantic vampire. I was very young at the time the series began and it was the only soap opera I was allowed to watch. Throughout the years, when A&E would air episodes, I was right there watching.

I have spent the entire day watching Dark Shadow episodes. At the end of each DVD, a cast member or staff member reflects back on the show. At the end of the third disc in this set, I learned this tidbit and wasn't in the least surprised by it.

Unlike most soap operas, this show took over an entire studio with sets everywhere and scenes filmed simultaneously and put together in the film room. This amazes me for the era as I've yet to see any errors aside from the occasional shake of the camera. When one show ends, the next picks up with end and then carries on -- modern day soaps attempt this, but not well. Often today, the clothes are different, the hair is different, little things they didn't care to take their time to right. I think this leads a lot into the fact that cast of Dark Shadows were made up of people who were used to working theatre and were trained to notice and make things right.

I have another set coming - the first 35 episodes of the series. I'm hoping by the end of the year to have the entire collection. I am so thrilled my husband gave me this set for Valentine's Day. And he's been right here watching with me. There are 40 episodes in this collection and we're barely in the fourth disc. I started at 7am. It's been like watching an all day movie.

Bekki
Posted by Lynnsplanet at 4:57 PM"

My own observations about the vampire genre:

The duality of his condition reflects the nature of the curse Barnabas was under. His initial savagery, when released from his long imprisonment, had to be suppressed, if he was to fit in as "cousin Barnabas." But, for much of the time, while he was subject to his vampiric state, he was the Beast beneath the outward semblance he assumed.

In this, Barnabas may be compared to other vampire characters, particularly Dracula. Dracula has been portrayed in a myriad of different ways, even sympathetically, but, notwithstanding some movie treatments, Bram Stoker depicted him as the Devil in the flesh, calculating his way among the humans upon whom he preyed, but, never really a part of them.

In particular, consider the movie "Bram Stoker's Dracula" (1992) with Gary Oldman. It was originally intended to be a close reproduction of the novel, but, as so often happens in Hollywood, that notion was ash-canned, in favor of making Dracula a "tragic, romantic figure." That's why, every time we watch it, I have to remind my wife that, early on in the film, we witness Dracula give a baby to his vampire brides to feed on. That revelation, which serves to establish Dracula's real nature, puts a fast stop on the "dreaminess" factor pretty quickly. Yet, without my reminder, she, as the audience is intended, tends to forget that particularly acute moment of horror, falling under Dracula's spell, herself.

Mina, herself, might never have fallen so easily for Dracula, had she known about that. But then, it was his well-concealed secret.

Barnabas, on the other hand, had a personality, however much submerged in evil, at times, which made him just that much more human. There was more to him than just the creature of darkness, though the two aspects were clearly at odds. Barnabas' story was, ultimately, a search for redemption. As written, Dracula, on the other hand, was just a predator, and, to be honest, a less than three-dimensional antagonist for Van Helsing, Harker, Quincy, et al, perhaps befitting a force which Stoker never intended to be fully understood.

Then, you have the more current crop of "romantic" vampires, Nick, Angel, Mick, and, Henry, all post-Barnabas TV vampires, from Forever Knight, Angel (the sequel to Buffy the Vampire Slayer), Moonlight, and, Blood Ties. Interesting that all are portrayed as working as detectives (though Henry Fitzroy is also a graphic novelist in the TV series, and, in the original novels by Tanya Huffman, is actually a romance novelist!).

All of them, though somewhat limited by their conditions, largely partake of the human world and society, more or less in control of their predatory natures, depending on the demands of the plot. They represent an evolution away from the evil spirit animating the dead flesh of a cursed nobleman (Dracula); through the conflicted but constantly dangerous creature born of a human spirit trapped within a cursed existence (Barnabas); to more or less regular guys (who even hold down jobs) with an interesting set of handicaps, not enough to keep them from being heroic protagonists, but, still enough to present that element of peril.

"Bad boys with bite," if you will.

So, where Dracula is simply a blight upon humanity, with no real personality or human motivations of his own, save the remaining traces of the man who once lived in the body which houses the evil spirit, Barnabas actively struggles (though, it might be said, somewhat selfishly) to overcome his curse, and, the modern vampires struggle /not to/ fall prey to their own, darker natures.

-Raycheetah =^[.]^=

This post has been edited by Raycheetah: Feb 21 2008, 05:21 PM

[herbsinger42]

Whoa...Ray... good myth!
I think the fascination we have is the struggle...suborning the beast within...
If the Vampire were only the predator, it has too many skills for the human to withstand for long.
With the rememberance of humanity, the longing for love... that is what makes all the vamp stories
fun...
The bad boy image might be part of the allure, but seriously, I don't think most of us vanilla types
are really lookin to suffer just so the boy might go on to the next one...

Beth's line, "I fed you...!!!" suggests there needs to be some reciprocity in modern times.

I remember Barnabas. I watched faitfully each day after school...
I love where the story has come, never mind the production...
Not that it wasn't terrific. It was, the story was, due to continuity... the acting was informative.

Did Barnabas have access to a blood bank?
I love that Mick uses either a glass or a syringe... by the way, any body know why the syringe??

The question of evil ... how can it be placed in one predator, and not be in another???
If we exile the vamp, we must also exile ourselves... we eat other flesh... some do use the blood of other species...
Are Vamps human... or not human? While humans don't actually on a regular basis eat other humans... we are known to prey on other humans in a variety of ways... economic, spiritually, physically,... etc.
Which shall we tolerate? Eating someone's blood, bad/evil. Bilking them out of their retirement account... just business.

[Raycheetah]

Barnabas did have the help of Dr. Hoffman, where blood supply was concerned. Before that, he would send an understandably reluctant Willie Loomis to fetch him an animal off which to feed.

Not so familiar with Moonlight... I do wonder why Mick sleeps in a freezer, though. I'm still polishing off the last available episodes of Blood Ties (which didn't win the Indie, by the way =-[.]-=). Moonlight will probably be next, though the missus and I own the Buffy DVDs...

As for the nature of evil, Dracula was a creature of spiritual evil, the Devil given flesh. No matter that he might seem like the Wallachian nobleman whose flesh he inhabited, he was just a puppet for an evil spirit. Barnabas was accursed; he was undead, but, fundamentally, he was still the person he had been, possessed of urges he was ill-prepared to control, and, his destiny was also tainted, so that he was doomed to destroy whom he loved.

Later vampires (Nick, Angel, Mick, and, Henry) drew upon different interpretations of the mythology, and, thus, had different takes on the matter of free will versus instinct, spiritual evil versus moral. Spiritual evil may be seen as immutable, forever malevolent in its essence. Moral evil, on the other hand, may be interpreted as a result of free will, and, capable of being overcome, as well as the compulsion of instinct.

So, a vampire may delight in destroying humans (evil by nature, or, by moral choice), or, may show restraint, either in not killing unnecessarily (which is also good policy, for purposes of long-term survival), or, in not feeding on humans, either directly, or, at all. However, some blood, from some source, is necessary for a vampire to continue its existence. To deny a vampire the right to feed in some manner is to declare that it has no right to exist.

In some cases, that's a reasonable position. Dracula needed killing. Henry Fitzroy, for example, perhaps less so, though no direct explanation is given for his condition (i.e., no "possessed by a demon or devil" or other specific definition). However, we know that Henry, by his own admission, has killed, and, committed many acts for which he, himself, bears the burden of guilt. Should he be penalized for his crimes? Or, is guilt sufficient penance for an immortal, who, it can be argued, has learned better?

Short of killing, a vampire who compels or coerces a human, in order to feed, violates their free will, their body, possibly (depending on the milieu) even their spirit. This is tantamount, at the least, to rape. However, this onus is relieved if the blood is given willingly, although an argument might also be made about knowledgeable consent, in this intepretation.

So, do we hold a vampire to the same moral code as we do ourselves? A difficult question. To turn it on its ear, consider this: Vampires are no longer human. In that case, do they have any of the same rights we afford ourselves as humans? Or, as a walking, thinking corpse, can a vampire be murdered? Enslaved (assuming one has the means to control one)? The emotional response is likely to be, yes. The response may be more ambiguous, when considered within the strict limits of human law.

-Raycheetah =^[.]^=

[TBug]

I love that Mick uses either a glass or a syringe... by the way, any body know why the syringe??

He seems to only use the syringe after he first wakes up. I don't really know the significance of that other than maybe he heeds direct application to thaw all the way? As you see him warm up after the injection.

So, do we hold a vampire to the same moral code as we do ourselves? A difficult question. To turn it on its ear, consider this: Vampires are no longer human. In that case, do they have any of the same rights we afford ourselves as humans? Or, as a walking, thinking corpse, can a vampire be murdered? Enslaved (assuming one has the means to control one)? The emotional response is likely to be, yes. The response may be more ambiguous, when considered within the strict limits of human law.

Okay Ray...there is no one difinitive answer here. Depending on any one author's artistic license, some of them are subject to the laws humans are, albiet a bit altered for thier purpose. And some vampires are undead as you say, only having a heartbeat when they're "animated" and dying when the sun goes down, while others just get a bit lethargic and never lose their heartbeat at all. Yes a vampire can be a murder because it's not necessary for them to kill to eat. Yes they can be enslaved (by their master or maker) and they can also be containted for punishment. Cross wrapped coffin anyone? What human law is strict? Given an adequate lawyer any law can be skewed. Therefore IF vampires, shapshifters and fairies suddenly decided to let the world be aware of their presence, then by our own laws they'd have to be recognized as fully sentient beings. They could very well demand rights just like everyone else regardless of gender, race, color, religeon or creed.

[Raycheetah]

He seems to only use the syringe after he first wakes up. I don't really know the significance of that other than maybe he heeds direct application to thaw all the way? As you see him warm up after the injection.
Okay Ray...there is no one difinitive answer here. Depending on any one author's artistic license, some of them are subject to the laws humans are, albiet a bit altered for thier purpose. And some vampires are undead as you say, only having a heartbeat when they're "animated" and dying when the sun goes down, while others just get a bit lethargic and never lose their heartbeat at all. Yes a vampire can be a murder because it's not necessary for them to kill to eat. Yes they can be enslaved (by their master or maker) and they can also be containted for punishment. Cross wrapped coffin anyone? What human law is strict? Given an adequate lawyer any law can be skewed. Therefore IF vampires, shapshifters and fairies suddenly decided to let the world be aware of their presence, then by our own laws they'd have to be recognized as fully sentient beings. They could very well demand rights just like everyone else regardless of gender, race, color, religeon or creed.

AHA!

So, Ms. Bug, you have fallen into my trap!

The real question, as you have so cleverly divined, is, "What is a person?"

You could extend your list to include aliens, talking animals, and, sentient computers, as well. Of course, in the latter case, the question of property rights versus parental responsibilities would arise for the parties responsible for creating a sentient computer.

So, what is a person? Assuming one could come up with a definition of sapience, any "self-aware" being which met certain benchmarks for reasoning ability still might not qualify; humanity already ignores the fact that other animal species are fully capable of "reason," within their own range of needs and functions, even being able to extend that range beyond their own, evolved set of capabilities to adapt to interaction with humans. For example, dogs can be amazingly smart, at doing doggish things, as well as doing the things to which humans train them... But, no one affords them the consideration of true sapience, because they can't fix a transmission, program a TIVO, or, make a perfect omelette.

Those of us who know and love critters do know that they are self-aware enough to have personalities and feelings. Your own, dear Bug is a good example. To you, he's a person, part of the family. But, to most folks, he'd be just a pig, mostly due to ignorance and prejudice.

Apes and dolphins are acknowledged as being close to human in mentation, capable of learning tasks which, while not so complex as those I mentioned, still outstrip the capabilities of your average dog, or, even, pig. Apes have the advantage of a physical structure which approximates our own, providing a degree of similarity which simultaneously creates and overcomes prejudices against their "person-ness." However, apes (both chimps and gorillas) which (who?) have learned sign language, have broached the barrier between us and them. When a "critter" can hold a conversation with you, it's kinda hard to think of them as a completely inferior being, anymore.

Dolphins actually have a longer historical relationship with humans, the Greeks enshrining them as brothers of man from the dawn of their civilization. Whether the stories of dolphins rescuing humans at sea are true or not, the tuna-fishing industry notwithstanding, people love dolphins. They are also possessed of formidable gifts, including large, complex brains which not only make them clever and emotionally complex (much like humans), but, also manage their range of sensitive sensory and physiological capabilities, as well. But, no hands, no manipulatory appendages, which might, otherwise, make them the dominant species on the planet.

It is well to remember, however, that we mustn't romanticize dolphins. They have been observed in the wild exhibiting a range of negative behaviors which, while belying their noble reputation, certainly bring them up to human standards, such as racial prejudice (between species of dolphins), brutality, even gang rape.

But, most folks think of "people" as being humans, and, "non-persons" as everything else, despite these shades of grey. We're actually quite jealous of that status, not wanting to open a legal/ethical can of worms and rock the well-established boat of our social structure.

So, yes, we'd likely treat any humanoid non-human beings as human, for legal purposes (and, quickly strive to make them part of the tax-paying electorate), no matter their peculiarities. Non-humanoid, mebbe not so much. But, first, it would be necessary to overcome the natural prejudices which would arise. Vampire? "Sure, he'd work out fine on the graveyard shift, but, I wouldn't want one to marry my daughter"... Or, more likely, "Destroy the unholy demonspawn!" ...And, that, as a rallying point for a range of otherwise disparate religious groups, who have already proven themselves, historically, quite willing to level that charge against genuine H. Sapiens sapiens people, and, to back it up with all manner of violence.

So, that may be why vamps and weres and fae folk would have good reason to otherwise keep quiet about themselves. Well, that, and, to avoid the IRS.

-Raycheetah =^[.]^=

[TBug]

Trust you to lay such a clever trap ray, lol.


I read almost nothing but vampire, shapeshifter, and alien type ficiton....I'll gladly read anything if it's good, but I buy the former for myself. What I have found is there is almost as many differing opinions out there for these types of beings as there are pennies in the US. So when I answered your questions earlier, that is to what I was referring.

I agree with your assessment of so called humankind and the atrocities we've visted upon those of our own kind much less those of the animal world. It pains me to witness animals being more humane than humans. Shades of grey be damned.

"Sure, he'd work out fine on the graveyard shift, but, I wouldn't want one to marry my daughter"... Or, more likely, "Destroy the unholy demonspawn!"

That is unless of course they were there to save your ass.....

[Raycheetah]

Trust you to lay such a clever trap ray, lol.
I read almost nothing but vampire, shapeshifter, and alien type ficiton....I'll gladly read anything if it's good, but I buy the former for myself. What I have found is there is almost as many differing opinions out there for these types of beings as there are pennies in the US. So when I answered your questions earlier, that is to what I was referring.

I agree with your assessment of so called humankind and the atrocities we've visted upon those of our own kind much less those of the animal world. It pains me to witness animals being more humane than humans. Shades of grey be damned.

[Vampire intolerance reference]

That is unless of course they were there to save your ass.....

Aww... You know I was kiddin' about the trap part =^[.]~=.

Naturally enough, in the quest for originality, you'll find plenty of variations on the vampirism theme (among others). The problem is, even in the original folklore (among the many cultures in which the vampire myth appeared), nobody was working very hard to remain consistent. But, the original, classic Slavic vampire was nobody you'd want to take to bed with you. And, far as I'm concerned, that is unexplored territory with some rich potential, depending on how somebody might want to write it, with such a cursed individual as a main character. I guess it depends if you want romance, or, horror.

And, sure, it's much more fashionable to cast vampires as protagonists, now, than as villains. I just wish they'd find something other to do than work as detectives.

-RC =^[.]^=

[herbsinger42]

It never occured to me that the IRS would be out for our vamp friends...
Wonder how Mick and Angel.. managed it. Angel had employees, to.
Hmm. Maybe, incorporate... a corporation is treated like a person in many ways by the tax system.

Now, I can make a perfect omlette... and the IRS wants my blood...and my money.
I am uncertain having sentience is a good thing.

All of Laurel Hamilton's folk definitely run businessess... one kind or an another... and with the fey series... she actually delves into what the rules are for the fey to operate... limitations on use of powers... etc.


It would be interesting to look at the opposite, of course, what rules they would break... how we'd deal with "proof," containment, and punishment.
As much as the Vampire may be 'undead'... they seem to have a powerful will to continue their 'existance' and survival mechanisms to do so.

I'm reminded of the law of entropy... a body in motion... except, vampires do rest... whethere in a coffin or a freezer... does the freezer preserve their life-like appearance?

Anne Rice dealt with a vamp being 'restored' once... and she was appaled at having to 'eliminate'... how crass that was.
It's the little things, eh?

[Raycheetah]

It never occured to me that the IRS would be out for our vamp friends...
Wonder how Mick and Angel.. managed it. Angel had employees, to.
Hmm. Maybe, incorporate... a corporation is treated like a person in many ways by the tax system.

Now, I can make a perfect omlette... and the IRS wants my blood...and my money.
I am uncertain having sentience is a good thing.

All of Laurel Hamilton's folk definitely run businessess... one kind or an another... and with the fey series... she actually delves into what the rules are for the fey to operate... limitations on use of powers... etc.
It would be interesting to look at the opposite, of course, what rules they would break... how we'd deal with "proof," containment, and punishment.
As much as the Vampire may be 'undead'... they seem to have a powerful will to continue their 'existance' and survival mechanisms to do so.

I'm reminded of the law of entropy... a body in motion... except, vampires do rest... whethere in a coffin or a freezer... does the freezer preserve their life-like appearance?

Anne Rice dealt with a vamp being 'restored' once... and she was appaled at having to 'eliminate'... how crass that was.
It's the little things, eh?

Heheh... What'd vamps do to maintain their looks before the advent of Frigidaire?

As for elimination... You know, all that blood has to go somewhere... Vampire bats have guano that resembles tar.

Just sayin'.

-RC =^[.]^=

[TBug]

I guess it depends if you want romance, or, horror.

Well I AM female, LOL. If I want horror I'll read King or Koonz....

This post has been edited by TBug: Feb 25 2008, 09:25 AM

[Raycheetah]

Well I AM female, LOL. If I want horror I'll read King or Koonz....

What, as a male, I can't appreciate romance?

Heheh...

-Raycheetah =^[.]^=

[TBug]

What, as a male, I can't appreciate romance?

Heheh...

-Raycheetah =^[.]^=

As you say...we're coming at this from different ends of the spectum You see I don't know you personally that well...but it's been my experience with most men that their idea of romance is quite different from a womans. Not coloring you with the same broad brush here mind you....

[herbsinger42]

Oh, Ray--- we all knew that you were a romatic at heart!!!
Any Browncoat is a romantic at heart... and a screaming roomantic for RL!!
One cannot know Kaylee and not,,, nor Wash and Zoe... nor Inara and Mal... even Simon.

The way you take such good care of Rhiotre. not to mention moving her to the most romantic
place in the world... where one need not wear more than one chooses... moonlight nights on the
beach... maybe a naked beach (just watched Ariel last night...)... gosh, were I lucky enough
to find a guy like you... I might conscider a partner...

[Raycheetah]

As you say...we're coming at this from different ends of the spectum You see I don't know you personally that well...but it's been my experience with most men that their idea of romance is quite different from a womans. Not coloring you with the same broad brush here mind you....

Awww... That's okay, Ms. Bug. I know you're an open-minded lady, livin' in a world of folks who contribute to stereotypes like they're tax deductible. I guess I'm a bit atypical, or, mebbe, more in touch with my feminine side, that way. Hey, I know! It's from havin' to wear Rhiotre's handle over on Skiffy =^[.]~=.

Oh, Ray--- we all knew that you were a romatic at heart!!!
Any Browncoat is a romantic at heart... and a screaming roomantic for RL!!
One cannot know Kaylee and not,,, nor Wash and Zoe... nor Inara and Mal... even Simon.

The way you take such good care of Rhiotre. not to mention moving her to the most romantic
place in the world... where one need not wear more than one chooses... moonlight nights on the
beach... maybe a naked beach (just watched Ariel last night...)... gosh, were I lucky enough
to find a guy like you... I might conscider a partner...

*BLUSHES!* Um, well... Didn't realize I was that transparent... And, it's Rhio who takes good care of me. I already wanted to live in Hawai'i; she was just sweet enough to agree, is all. Rhio's sensible, that way. No, my flamin' romantic side scarcely comes out, hereabouts, and, it might even make you blush Ms. Singer, to find out what an old-school, sappy romantic I can be.

-RC =^[.]~=

[TBug]

Like Ms. Singer said....if we could only find a man like you. Say.....you don't have any single brothers do you?